Live cash game strategy

[Dexman1349]

I'm looking for pointers for playing a 1-2NL or a 2-5NL type cash game (specifically in Vegas, but could also apply to the Hill).  When I join you guys out there in June, I want to be able to sit down at a cash table and at least break even, and not just rely on playing tourneys. 

A few key questions:

What do you look for with table selection?  Any open seat or do you look for a specific type of players ("tourist-looking", loud/obnoxious, drunk, etc)?

Recommended buy-ins?  Most of these tables have a minimum buy-in rule, but I don't think I want to just sit with the min.

Overall play strategy? I know it's all table dependent, but what is the recommended way to approach a table for the first ~30-60 min while you get reads?

I've played cash before, but I play it so infrequently I don't really have a feel for the cash games as well as I do the tournaments and consequently end up bleeding chips until I'm forced to either rebuy, leave, or play short-stacked.  My typical approach is find a table that all players seem to be getting along (but not necessarily all best friends).  See how much is in front of each player and buy-in for the table average (possibly ignore and/or avoid any insane big and short stacks).  Start my play with more of a Tight-Aggro approach (limit to AQo and higher in position) while I try to pick up on some reads.  Then as the reads start to come in, open up my play to start seeing more cheap flops with coordinating cards (any two face cards, small pairs, suited connectors, 1 gappers, open up positions played, etc.).  All the time avoiding big pots unless I have the ~3rd nuts or better.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

[Steverazzeca]

It really depends on what you want to do. If you want to win consistantly with little risk then you play tight preflop and keep the pots small then when you flop a big hand you play very aggressive post flop. Big hand is not top pair top kicker it is 2 pair on safe boards, sets, flushes straights full house ect. The play is so bad you will get these hands paid off by people with top pair crap kicker and sometimes even middle pairs ect and by paid off I dont mean like $30 dollar pots some players will stack off against you.  This is a simple strategy that will win a good amount in LV 1/2 NL games.  Table selection is not a big deal pretty much every 1/2 game in vegas will play  very soft. If you sit down and for some reason the game is tough which can happen on occasion you ask for a table change or walk to the next casino 5 minutes away and get in a soft game.

If you want a higher win amount you will have higher variance but tight aggressive ABC poker will accomplish this. when you raise preflop you have to realize what you are raising for if you are trying to thin the field your standard 3x bb raise will accomplish nothing the pople playing these games look at $9 like its a limped pot so you have to raise more. At the same time if you are playing a suited connector in position and raise you want a lot of callers this works perfect and builds a nice pot preflop. Keep track of what is in the pot and what type of hands the players at your table are playing within 20 minutes you should have a good idea who is doing what and who you need a premium holding to play with and who you can value bet to death because they cant lay down AK when they have nothing.

You pretty much have 3 types of players in vegas the Promotion chasers they are there to try and get a bad beat if they are betting or raising they have a monster. The typical calling station and the hyper aggressive players that play everything and bluff at every pot. On occasion you wwill see a solid player or 2 at your table.

[Steverazzeca]

Another thing I will tell you is dont fall in love with your typical premium hands most pots are going to have 4+ players seeing the flop If you have trouble getting away from AK, AQ, AA, KK QQ ect when you hit top pair you better be making big preflop raises because you are going to lose big pots with them if you dont thin the field down to 1-2 opponents. If you cant lay down top pair top kicker you need to bet big preflop then when you hit make a large pot sized bet on the flop. When in vegas I pretty much never play big pots without a very big hand (set or better or top pair and a big draw). I always buy in for the max when playing because I want to stack someone when I hit my monster and the only way I am going to lose my stack is if I run into a monster against my monster.

Some of the things I have seen that are almost not even believable are a stack of $200 moved all in on me preflop I had AA he had K7 offsuit. Saw aN $1100 pot with 4 players all in with 4 hearts on the board 1 guy had top pair one had a str8 1 had 2 pair and the guy that won had the 6h3c about 80% of the money went in on the river. Parks and I were at a table where a guy was blind raising every hand for $60-$120 before the cards were dealt. I saw a guy get all in with air and lose 4 hands in a row and rebuy for the max $300 everytime he was at the table about 10 minutes and lost $1200. At this point he left and everyone was trying to talk him into another rebuy.

Dont tilt and if you never bluff in these games it is +EV At the toughest 1/2 games you are likely to be in maybe 1-2 other players are paying attention to anything other then their cards you can fold every hand for 2 hours then get someones stack because they had no clue you were playing tight hell they probably dont even know what playing tight means. Play reasonably smart and you will make a profit

[Dexman1349]

sounds like a tight ABC type play works best.  Nothing fancy, minimize (or completely eliminate) bluffs, dump your cards if you're not solid, aggro when you do hit hard.

what are your thoughts towards small pairs and suited connectors?  I'm assuming cheap flops in position, dump if you miss or only barely hit, then aggro if you hit hard.

Whats a typical max buyin for 1-2?  I'm assuming $300, then maybe $500 for 2/5, right? 

[Steverazzeca]

Small pairs and suited connectors play well in these games cheap multiway pots are common so if you hit a set or a big draw or better you play aggressive if you dont hit you dont put anymore money into the pot its that simple. Typical buy ins are 60-300 for 1/2 with a couple places the max being 200 MGM comes to mind. 2/5 500 is typical for the max some places both have higher caps as well and a few places spread 1/3 the Rio and TI come to mind for those games.

[Ian 2.0]

I have done pretty well at the 1/2 and 1/3 games out there over the past few years.....one thing I will tell you is this. If you find yourself at a tight and solid table, ask to switch tables or maybe try a different casino.  The problem with being at a table like this is basically all of the good advice Steve gave you goes right out the window....you are probably at table with what I call the 1/2 rounders or maybe some dealers or both.  There are plenty of people who play at these small stakes on a regular basis to supplement there income. While they may not be the greatest players in the world, ABC poker simply doesn't work against them because they are playing that way as well. They understand the game enough to know when not to chase long shot draws and when their top pair is no good. There are just so many betters spots out there.....sure you are less likely to get sucked out in this game, but you will make far more money in a game where most everyone is overplaying their hands.

One other thing I've noticed out there in terms of specific hands are this......

I would much prefer to play Ax suited than 5 6s....I like connectors in these games when you can get in cheap, but it's not flushes that I am looking to make with these hands, it's straights or maybe two pair on a raggy flop. If you are going to chase after a flush, I would much prefer to be going after the nuts....let the others play their 8 6 suited hands and stack off against your higher flush.

AK and AQ can be tricky hands, as you will make top pair top kicker with these hands, but sometimes be faced with a difficult decision for all or most of your chips. I prefer to play them slowly most of the time, keep the pot small if at all possible. Sometimes you might be calling down a guy with A 10 and when you flip over the winner on the river you will feel like you lost value, however you also may gain that back on a future hand because now you look like either scared money or maybe you don't know how to value bet your hand.  I feel that in these games playing a bit on the cautious side is just more profitable in the long run....small ball with your so-so hands, and swing for the fences with your 2 pair plus hands.


Another thing I want to preach is patience.....sometimes you will not pick up a hand for a couple orbits....and live poker can go slowly at times...don't start chasing after small pots cause you are board....a $300 stack will bleed down to $150 before you know it and now when you pick up that monster you might not be able to stack someone off.

Okay now this one is going to sound stupid, but I try to do this almost everytime I can out there....even up the hill as well.  Try to make a friend with either the guy on your right or left. I can't tell you how many times this has either saved me bets or given me fold equity I might not have had otherwise. sometimes you are sitting next to some unfriendly people and it can't be done, but when it can do it. Maybe this guy will sort of soft play you cause he likes you and doesn't want to show you up. Other times he might flash his cards to you when you are out of a hand, giving you insight to how he plays. Maybe he folds his marginal (but better than yours) hand to you when you are heads up, because why would you bluff your new found pal? Sometimes there is one guy at the table nobody likes, he is at the other end, and now you feel like you have teamed up with this guy to take him down....I'm not talking collusion or anything like that...just that you are happy for each other anytime one of you takes a pot from the loudmouth idiot over there.

And most importantly try to have fun. If you find yourself at a social table, be happy. Trust me even if the cards don't go your way you will be much happier when you get felted than if you are at a table fully of grumpy or super serious players.

[DanielleRB]

Ian, I think your advice is really strong!  I use the "befriending" strategy all the time in Vegas - for cash games and tournaments...it has made me quite a bit of money (the guy will say "I have the nuts and will show you - I don't want to take your money")...which is always nice!

I would suggest that you first analyze your bankroll and willingness to take hits to it before determining your strategy.  You mentioned last night that you are looking to play quite a bit of cash game.  I think the single largest factor for you will be whether you are comfortable losing your buy in or not - for if you can't sustain the loss, you will play scared, which will be easily discovered and then exploited...so no matter what, determine what level you are going to play based on your bankroll...my cash game results improved dramatically when I determined what I was comfortable losing...and subsequently, I was willing to make bigger plays with it.   Here is why I think this holds true - my results in Vegas lately would have to tell me to move up to the $5/$10 no limit, but when I did it I wasn't as comfortable, thus played too tightly and was more a spectator in the game (even with a small win booked)...which told me to move back down to $2/$5 and be more active/profitable.

My own rule of thumb is to sit down at a table that I can afford 7 to 10 buyins at - so if you are planning on playing $1/$2 NL and want to buy in for $100, then I would suggest you take $700 to $1,000 to play cash game with - don't get me wrong, I am not saying you would play that in any one session...NEVER...just saying that I have found the amount of scared play is in direct proportion to the amount you have available for reloading.

Finally, remember to analyze what kind of image you are portraying when you sit down just by the nature of who you are...every time I sit down people assume I am a school teacher or something like that...which means I can use that to my advantage until they know better...I can't really change that opinion so I need to use it to my advantage to start...I would think you are going to look like a young aggressive player by appearance so you should factor that into your initial image and play against type to maximize initial profits...just an idea on my part.

I think this is a great discussion!

Dani

[Dexman1349]

thanks for the tips Dani.  That's a good point on the table image.  I always remember the table image (as far as cards/hands/bets played), but forget to factor in the physical appearance part.  Never really thought about what others would see as their 1st impression of me and how that would shape how they play against me.

As far as the buy-ins, you're saying I should bring 7-10x each session or total for the trip?  I was thinking of bringing about $300-400 per session but only buying in for ~$150 for 1/2NL.  That way I have some "back-up" money for eacy session.

As far as the scared money part, I think this is where my tournament background will come in handy.  Once the money is on the table, I consider it gone (just like a tournament buy-in).  Additionally, to help with the scared part as well as the learning curve, that's why I want to start at a 1/2 table.

[DanielleRB]

I was saying bring 7 to 10 times your buy in for the whole trip - I generally don't rebuy more than 1 time in a session as a way to ensure I don't tilt off my bankroll.

I wouldn't be too concerned if you end up staying at $1/$2 the whole trip - there is plenty of money to be made at that level...make sure you get over to the MGM for that game!

GL!